Are we going to war with Venezuela?

[Marie Mallory]

He is probably hoping for a deal like the President of Honduras got. Sadly, there are so many countries in South America that make their money from illicit things and are controlled by cartels. How to end it all. I think the president of Mexico said it is not their fault. We should deal with the users in the US and that would end the traffic.

Exactly, America is their biggest customer. We need a tent city for drug addicts, if they go back on drugs after rehabilitation, then lock up for a while.

 

[Marie Mallory]

Interesting. I wonder where that falls legally?

So do I, not sure how we should deal with it.

 

[Don Alaska]

It appears the U.S. blockade of Venezuela has begun. At least 4 supertankers have been turned around when they approached Venezuelan ports. This is an act of war against Venezuela just as the Cuban Blockade was in the 1960s under JFK. Will China or Russia enter the conflict? Who knows. We'll see in the next few days.

 

[Don Alaska]

We have seized three tankers now, at least one owned by Chinese interests. Are we picking a war with China? Why are we seizing oil if the problem is drugs?? I realize we are trying to push Maduro out of power, but are we not doing stuff similar to what Russia initially did in Ukraine that so upset the Western World? Venezuela sent many terrorists into the U.S. under the last administration. Could they not become a fifth column inside the U.S. Venezuela cannot defeat the U.S. military, but they may be able to take out our power grid or other elements of our infrastructure. Questions, questions, but no answers. We are also attacking ISIS, who has thousands of terrorists under their influence, and that has manifested in Australia and in several incidents within the U.S. and Europe recently. Where are we heading? Any REASONABLE comments?

 

[Yvonne Smith]

I think that President Trump has gotten rid of a lot of the Venezuelan gang members here, but there are probably still some undercover that have not been found yet. President Trump seems to be going after any kind of gang members and drug dealers here, regardless of where they arrrived from, so that is all good.

From what I have been reading, these are rogue tankers that are either not flying an identifying flag at all, or are flying a bogus flag from some other country, and are carrying the oil illegally. The oil is probably tied in with the drug running, since Maduro is basically a drug overlord, and this is stopping some of his cash flow.
They are also offloading some of the oil from the tankers to other rogue ships, far out in the ocean, so this oil is definitely not in any kind of a legal transit. They are not only losing the oil, they are also losing their ships that they have been transporting it with, so Maduro is probably feeling this.

It is not like President Trump just went there and starting taking over the ships, he has been trying to negotiate with Venezuela for the last several months that we are all aware of. The people in Venezuela want Maduro gone, too; so they are hoping that we can get rid of the dictator and help the country recover again.

 

[Mary Stetler]

I was concerned that seizing the oil tankers was kind of giving permission to China to threaten Taiwan more with impunity. There are things Trump does that I don't necessarily like but I trust he has good reason for doing what he does. It is good for our nation and the world, in his mind. He has good intel and advisors this time. Definitely smarter than I am. He is not doing things just for personal gain as polititians do.
Maduro is not the real elected president. But he has the cartels to protect him and he they.
Criminals are expelled from here but they have come back, sometimes many times. And when they are expelled, where do they go? Other countries don't want them either. Or they can re-bolster the criminal element in their countries.

 

[Yvonne Smith]

I think that we have shipped a lot of those gang members and drug dealers to that prison in El Salvador, where they are not going to just come back into the US from there, probably forever. If people are just here illegally, we send them back to wherever they came from, but when they are criminals and gang members, then they are sent to prison , and often, it is the one in El Salvador.

Here is the information on the captured oil tankers, from Secretary Hegseth, and it explains why we are seizing these ships.

 

[Don Alaska]

It is all very dangerous. Yes, it may be that the U.S. has (mostly unilaterally) sanctioned the tankers involved in the seizures, but tanker and ship registry in general is very nebulous. Ships can be owned by one nation, or even a group of national entities, and flagged under another nation, and carrying a cargo owned by yet a different nation. Trump is sanctioning the tankers and seizing the oil, but does sanctioning the tanker entitle the U.S. to seize the cargo? What would our reaction be if Iran sanctioned tankers carrying oil to the U.S.? Would the sanctioning of a tanker deemed to be "illegal" in the eyes of Iran entitle Iran to seize the oil owned by the U.S. and shipped by Saudi Arabia? Trump is somewhat justifying the seizures now as repayment for seized assets of U.S. oil companies by the Hugo Chavez regime, but Maduro is not Chavez (although they are of a similar bent and a bit like comparing things Obama did to what Biden did), and Venezuela is not the only nation who has seized the assets of U.S. companies. Many African and other Latin American nations have done that as well as China and the U.S. seizing assets on each others' soil. Does that justify an embargo, a blockade, and seizure of multi-national assets? International shipping will come to a complete halt if it does. The entire conflict with Venezuela now appears to be over oil and oil assets with drugs being used as a cover. We want a change in the government in Venezuela and Russia wants a change in the government of Ukraine. Are we any different?

I definitely disapprove of the seizure of tankers and oil. I may not disapprove of banning tankers from going in and picking up oil (on the inward trip), but once the tankers are loaded and outbound, the consequences could be terrible. Just imagine if the tankers fight back and are accidentally or intentionally sunk. What would the consequences of two or three Exxon Valdez oil spills be on the Caribbean and the Gulf?

 

[Marie Mallory]

It appears the U.S. blockade of Venezuela has begun. At least 4 supertankers have been turned around when they approached Venezuelan ports. This is an act of war against Venezuela just as the Cuban Blockade was in the 1960s under JFK. Will China or Russia enter the conflict? Who knows. We'll see in the next few days.

Don I think we confiscated them.

 

[Marie Mallory]

We have seized three tankers now, at least one owned by Chinese interests. Are we picking a war with China? Why are we seizing oil if the problem is drugs?? I realize we are trying to push Maduro out of power, but are we not doing stuff similar to what Russia initially did in Ukraine that so upset the Western World? Venezuela sent many terrorists into the U.S. under the last administration. Could they not become a fifth column inside the U.S. Venezuela cannot defeat the U.S. military, but they may be able to take out our power grid or other elements of our infrastructure. Questions, questions, but no answers. We are also attacking ISIS, who has thousands of terrorists under their influence, and that has manifested in Australia and in several incidents within the U.S. and Europe recently. Where are we heading? Any REASONABLE comments?

If they are transporting drugs to USA, then why not wait till they are in our jurisdiction or at least international waters?
I'm running out of excuses for Trumps lawlessness. Although I voted for him, he is acting like a 'loose canon', literally.

 

[Don Alaska]

Don I think we confiscated them.

Nope, those tankers reversed course. The tankers we seized were full of oil and leaving Venezuela. We have seized 3 tankers that I know about, but many more have elected not to visit Venezuela until things settle, a bit like the Houthis in the Red Sea. Tankers especially are avoiding them.

 

[Don Alaska]

If they are transporting drugs to USA, then why not wait till they are in our jurisdiction or at least international waters?
I'm running out of excuses for Trumps lawlessness. Although I voted for him, he is acting like a 'loose canon', literally.

Not so easy. those boats will be offloaded onto smaller boats in international waters and instead of dealing with one, two, or three boats, we could be dealing with 50+ boats and the crews. A lot more people could be killed and many of them would probably be American drug dealers. I think he wants to limit the number of casualties and try not to kill Americans if it can be avoided.

I am not making excuses, and I don't necessarily approve of what is being done, but I understand it and would rather 4 Venezuelan drug runners be killed than a 100 Americans, although I would love to see the Americans tried and jailed. If people in the U.S. would just follow Nancy Reagan's much-maligned advice and "Just say NO", the entire problem would not exist.

 

[Marie Mallory]

Nope, those tankers reversed course. The tankers we seized were full of oil and leaving Venezuela. We have seized 3 tankers that I know about, but many more have elected not to visit Venezuela until things settle, a bit like the Houthis in the Red Sea. Tankers especially are avoiding them.

That the ones I was talking about, the ones full of oil.

 

[Marie Mallory]

Not so easy. those boats will be offloaded onto smaller boats in international waters and instead of dealing with one, two, or three boats, we could be dealing with 50+ boats and the crews. A lot more people could be killed and many of them would probably be American drug dealers. I think he wants to limit the number of casualties and try not to kill Americans if it can be avoided.

I am not making excuses, and I don't necessarily approve of what is being done, but I understand it and would rather 4 Venezuelan drug runners be killed than a 100 Americans, although I would love to see the Americans tried and jailed. If people in the U.S. would just follow Nancy Reagan's much-maligned advice and "Just say NO", the entire problem would not exist.

Long as drugs are in demand they will supply them. Those taking drugs should be prosecuted along with the pushers.
We have just as many coming in from Columbia, Mexico, and other nation's as oil rich Venezuela sends.
Trump has let this power go to his head, and it is obvious he has done so.
he wants to take Canada, Iceland, and others I can't remember [senility].
Also thank you for having a civil debate with me. Not much of that going on these days.

 

[Don Alaska]

Long as drugs are in demand they will supply them. Those taking drugs should be prosecuted along with the pushers.
We have just as many coming in from Columbia, Mexico, and other nation's as oil rich Venezuela sends.
Trump has let this power go to his head, and it is obvious he has done so.
he wants to take Canada, Iceland, and others I can't remember [senility].
Also thank you for having a civil debate with me. Not much of that going on these days.

Some of that stuff is done just to rile the Left. He does want some access to Greenland, but he never wanted Canada. Stuff he said about Canada was to ridicule the government there, and demonstrate how much of their country they have lost that was once great, just as we have lost much of what we had on this side of the border.

 

[Marie Mallory]

Some of that stuff is done just to rile the Left. He does want some access to Greenland, but he never wanted Canada. Stuff he said about Canada was to ridicule the government there, and demonstrate how much of their country they have lost that was once great, just as we have lost much of what we had on this side of the border.

Isn't Greenland colder than Iceland?

 

[Don Alaska]

Isn't Greenland colder than Iceland?

Certainly generally so, but the strategic position and mineral wealth is why Trump wanted Greenland. Iceland is a NATO nation and Greenland is owned by Denmark, who is also in NATO, but much of Greenland is not accessible similar to Alaska. Greenland has very few people and a low standard of living despite the wealth under the ground.

 

[Marie Mallory]

Certainly generally so, but the strategic position and mineral wealth is why Trump wanted Greenland. Iceland is a NATO nation and Greenland is owned by Denmark, who is also in NATO, but much of Greenland is not accessible similar to Alaska. Greenland has very few people and a low standard of living despite the wealth under the ground.

From what I remember, Greenland still has a Viking ancestry, is this true?

 

[Jacob Petersheim]

I doubt there is any one thing in play here.

Yes, a part of it is suppressing chemical substance use among our intractable idiot-child drug abuse subculture right up through their spoiled and bored wealthy counterparts.

But a big slice of it is probably a new Monroe Doctrine regime. South American oil to China by turning back ships. The silver drain to China has been dramatically slowed by encouraging its shipment to U.S. refiners instead. Similar things are going on with beef and other ag products. Probably other commodities if we dig into it as well.

The only "new" thing here is the stage we're at.

It's not about Trump, and we know this because of those Hillary Clinton speeches under Obama and while later running where she "dreamed of a global hemisphere." I.e. deglobalization was inevitable, China and the EU were economically hostile, and new defensive lines had to be drawn.

Hostile regimes and Eastern Hemisphere incursions into the West just aren't tolerable. Ducks are being pushed into the row.

 

[Don Alaska]

I doubt there is any one thing in play here.

Yes, a part of it is suppressing chemical substance use among our intractable idiot-child drug abuse subculture right up through their spoiled and bored wealthy counterparts.

But a big slice of it is probably a new Monroe Doctrine regime. South American oil to China by turning back ships. The silver drain to China has been dramatically slowed by encouraging its shipment to U.S. refiners instead. Similar things are going on with beef and other ag products. Probably other commodities if we dig into it as well.

The only "new" thing here is the stage we're at.

It's not about Trump, and we know this because of those Hillary Clinton speeches under Obama and while later running where she "dreamed of a global hemisphere." I.e. deglobalization was inevitable, China and the EU were economically hostile, and new defensive lines had to be drawn.

Hostile regimes and Eastern Hemisphere incursions into the West just aren't tolerable. Ducks are being pushed into the row.

I think the drug thing is part of it, but mainly a cover for other issues. Marco Rubio has long had trouble with the Venezuelan government, and, as Secretary of State, he now has power to take some action. He cannot, of course, do anything military, but as the architect of foreign policy, he can influence how it (military) is used. Chinese inroads to our south has bothered Trump since his first term, and when the election there was allegedly stolen using the same election software used in many of the U.S. states, he felt especially injured as he feels the same thing was done to him in 2020.

I disapprove of seizing full tankers leaving the Venezuelan parts as I have outlined previously, but I do not object to blockading inbound vessels as the flags and ownership can be determined even when hidden. The cargos, however, may belong to many nations and it can be very difficult to determine that from afar.