PV Window Box

[Jacob Petersheim]

Have I mentioned that solar panels get hot?

My big 350 watt array has some metal rivets along its top edge where its folding "kickstand" supports in the back are fastened and hinged.

When it comes time to move the thing out and away from encroaching shadows and change orientation to face the sun I have to be careful. Grab that top edge in the wrong place and it is painfully hot.

 

[Axel Slingerland]

Out of semi-idle curiosity... I take it solar panels mounted on the roof wont fly? Would trimming your trees help? After living in Redwood country, where a single tree limb falling could totally destroy your house, I saw the merit of keeping tree limbs away from your house.

And my friend said that panel heat was a deciding factor in his decision to go mobile with the panels.

 

[Jacob Petersheim]

Oh yeah. Power stations don't like heat either.

They produce waste heat when charging and when discharging. It's just the nature of the beast. So they have temperature sensors and fans built in.

But don't place them in the sunlight while charging! Some sort of shade is a must.

 

[Axel Slingerland]

This is sort of like how my friend in Eureka made his larger stands portable. Not exactly, but close.

 

[Jacob Petersheim]

Out of semi-idle curiosity... I take it solar panels mounted on the roof wont fly? Would trimming your trees help? After living in Redwood country, where a single tree limb falling could totally destroy your house, I saw the merit of keeping tree limbs away from your house.

Few of these trees are on my property. They surround me and they are very mature and quite tall. There is really only one that I might remove now, and I had taken several out over time because I did have one fall and do damage decades ago.

Just trimming the one would not be enough. But even if I removed it there is not enough exposed surface long enough each say to make rooftop solar practical here. Enough of the neighboring large trees are evergreens to boot, so Winter ends up being terrible for rooftop solar here. I'm not sure there could ever be full payback over the lifetime, maybe not even close.


This is really just a hobby activity for me, one that gets me out and about and lifting weight and moving crap around as well. Any practical gains just help subsidize the hobby a little bit for me. Well, that and make it at least feel less ridiculous.

Even with the money I have sunk into it I'm way ahead of the cost others spend on their toys. A jet ski, motorcycle, boat, etc. are still far more of an investment and they sit idle most of the time.

I'm looking at it as a learning experience. More like gardening I suppose than anything else. I get problems to solve, some gratification from success, some minor benefit, I keep my mind working, and I get some outdoor exercise.

 

[Jacob Petersheim]

This is sort of like how my friend in Eureka made his larger stands portable. Not exactly, but close.

Well I'm not there yet, but what he has in the video might almost eat up all of my best patches of lawn open to full sunlight. And it is larger than the patches I have left open after 2 PM.

At that scale it looks pretty semi-permanent. And you can't just pack it up and bring it inside in the late afternoon.

So while interesting, I don't think I'm ready for that. Food for thought though, thanks!

 

[Axel Slingerland]

As my friend Tom would say "It's fun and every watt I get from this is one less that I would have to pay PG&E for." He does it for a hobby too. He could be wasting all of his money on drugs and booze, which is most people in Eureka's hobby. He just bought a house with full sun almost all day, every day of the year (except of course, when it's raining), and it's pretty big so there's lots of room on the roof. Supposedly, homeowners in California can get a solar power setup for free.

Have you ever seen the PBS show Ask This Old House? In Season 14 Episode 4, one of the crew goes to Germany to learn how the country has become so good at energy efficiency. In one segment, they're in the "mechanical room", where all the power related stuff is, and he noticed that what appeared to be a circuit breaker panel had a small piston on the side. He asked about it, and when the power is coming from the grid that piston is always pumping away, making more electricity. They didn't say how much exactly, or at least I don't remember if they did, I still thought this was a cool idea too.

I tried to find a copy of the episode online, but it's pay TV only as far as I can tell. Tubi TV has a bunch of episodes but not that one. I used to have it in MP4 format, but that was on my 8Tb drive that failed last Christmas Eve. There were 7,500 plus TV episodes and a few movies on it. I still have a lot of the original TV full series box sets and other assorted DVDs, but I donated a lot of my DVDs to the Humboldt County Library in Eureka after I copied the ones I wanted a copy of. 1,200 factory made DVD sets and over 1,300 DVD+R disks piled up to the point Cindy told me I had to get them a room. In addition to two large U-haul boxes full of DVDs, I have 14 of these but the last one was only partially used. At least half of the disks are still blank.

So far though, after we were moved here I've only found 6 of them. My daughter says more might be in her storage unit. I was like "Oh yeah, after two years of summer temps in the 100°+ range, I'm sure they're fine. They'll make great skeet targets." She's almost 40 years old and still a blonde after all these years...

 

[Jacob Petersheim]

Have you ever seen the PBS show Ask This Old House?

I used to watch this, as well as the older main show that went through various hosts over time.

It was always interesting, but for the most part it addressed lavish properties and expensive projects. It was able to teach a lot about home construction and remodeling, but it was about a... different America than the one I lived in.

 

[Axel Slingerland]

I used to watch this, as well as the older main show that went through various hosts over time.

It was always interesting, but for the most part it addressed lavish properties and expensive projects. It was able to teach a lot about home construction and remodeling, but it was about a... different America than the one I lived in.

True, but it wasn't always that way. Sometimes they had some great ideas that could be used for any budget. They showed the supplies they would use, but that wouldn't have to be what everyone uses. Or what they used them for. We used some construction ideas they had for a fancy house in Vermont or New Hampshire on our bus to make spending so much time in it more tolerable. We didn't go full on Americana, just put in some comforts of home...

 

[Jacob Petersheim]

Already "gardened" (move crap around) 3 times since 7 AM. One bucket filled and now dumping it into Big Guy to run he fridge off-grid. I hope to fill it again but right now another is in its place storing up more. Beige Bomb is filling well from my 350 watt Monster Panels. Once that's done I have nowhere else to store more at its higher voltage so I can drag it back into the shade to cool.

When I get Big Guy filled to 100% I move the fridge off there and onto Beige Bomb which can run it completely off-grid for several hours until bed time.

Tomorrow looks a little dicey cloud and rain-wise. I can take a break and putter with a couple of other projects.



I'm getting plenty of sun, most of this is done shirtless in the Summer heat and humidity. But each exposure is fairly brief, so I am not overconcerned about it. I never get close to burning so it is probably more beneficial than harmful.

 

[Jacob Petersheim]

I got a deal on a reflector for portable solar panels, and 50% off made it worth a look.



It arrived yesterday, and this morning I gave it a go.

I've read a lot of articles and watched several test and trial videos. Their results agree with my own. Yes, you get a gain in power output initially, but the panels heat up faster as you might expect and conversion efficiency and output drops with heat.

However I haven't found much yet on Spring and Fall performance, much less Winter. Heat becomes little to no concern then, and you have less powerful sunlight for shorter days on top of that. So I think there will be off-season benefits to reflectors.

I like it enough that I ordered a second one before they sell out at the Summer sale pricing.

While they help in the morning, most likely they'll remain "shelf queens" until Autumn gets near.

 

[Jacob Petersheim]

One frustration with "bucketing" power into the house is the losses involved (not to mention the extra lugging of boxes around). Most of these "bucket" units only offer 12 V DC output or else 110/120 V AC which means inverter losses out and rectification into the "barrel" unit in the house.

The 12 V output is typically limited to 8 to 9 amps though, and at around 100 watts it takes quite a while to pour from a bucket into the large barrel in the house. A 48 volt (or even 24 V) DC output would be a big improvement.

I may try the AC route to get around this. It means more fiddling around and possibly greater losses, but it may help me get more out of my sunlight hours. And no more hot "cigar lighter" plugs!

I'm also considering running a thick gauge cable from the barrel itself to the larger PV (photovoltaic solar) panels outside directly. That's a more "normal" setup anyway, and closer to a proper "whole house" installation even using portable PV panels. The buckets are still useful elsewhere within the house since I'm not trying to use the house AC wiring to carry any solar power (which would mean electricians, permits, and extra equipment).

 

[Jacob Petersheim]

I'm trying to keep an eye out these days for how things will change as daily sunlight changes to more southerly angles. The later months should differ from Spring in that the tall trees to my South will be fully leafed out until the leaves begin falling.

By late August I may have far fewer effective hours of direct sunlight than right now.

 

[Yvonne Smith]

Already "gardened" (move crap around) 3 times since 7 AM. One bucket filled and now dumping it into Big Guy to run he fridge off-grid. I hope to fill it again but right now another is in its place storing up more. Beige Bomb is filling well from my 350 watt Monster Panels. Once that's done I have nowhere else to store more at its higher voltage so I can drag it back into the shade to cool.

When I get Big Guy filled to 100% I move the fridge off there and onto Beige Bomb which can run it completely off-grid for several hours until bed time.

Tomorrow looks a little dicey cloud and rain-wise. I can take a break and putter with a couple of other projects.

View attachment 861

I'm getting plenty of sun, most of this is done shirtless in the Summer heat and humidity. But each exposure is fairly brief, so I am not overconcerned about it. I never get close to burning so it is probably more beneficial than harmful.

We have both been spending time outside in the sun since early this spring. Bobby is always working on a project and running around shirtless, like you, but I am only close to that out in the privacy of our little enclosed area outside of the back door. Before it was warm enough for the swimming pool, I suntanned out in the zero gravity recliner for a little while each day, soaking up as much of that good sunshine and Vitamin D as possible.
Now, we try to spend an hour in the pool on days where that is possible, weather wise, and I have a nice suntan, and haven’t burnt myself yet this year.
I feel so refreshed after being in the pool, and sleep much better at night.

 

[Jacob Petersheim]

We have both been spending time outside in the sun since early this spring. Bobby is always working on a project and running around shirtless, like you, but I am only close to that out in the privacy of our little enclosed area outside of the back door.

I avoid running around out front like that. In back just about the only person who has seen me is the chicken-lady next door.

I have another FedEx delivery tomorrow or the next day though. So to avoid missing the driver again I'll probably put a shirt on and camp out front in a chair under the apple tree. Only necessary when a signature is required, but it seems there is no way to know until the driver arrives.

 

[Jacob Petersheim]

Here is how I am powering my kitchen refrigerator (in addition to a number of lamps and grow-lights, under-cabinet motion sensing light bars in the kitchen, phone, etc. etc. around the house).



My biggest powerstation sits between the wall and grid power and the fridge itself. This unit is set up as a "timed UPS" which implies several things. For example if grid power fails it takes over from it internal battery. It has a schedule set up to stop using grid power and run the fridge from its battery during my peak billing hours of 2 PM to 7 PM.

Et the end of the high-rate period if it is discharged below a high setpoint (I'm using 85%) it will recharge it battery from grid power. If the battery ever falls below a low setpoint (I'm using 15%) it will stop using battery to avoid damaging it, switching to grid power as long as it is available.

I charge smaller powerstations outdoors during my good sunlight hours. As these fill, I bring them inside and "dump" stored charge into the big powerstation. Even after my good sunlight interval ends I typically have a lot of charge in the powerstations when I bring them all in.

This helps to minimize the amount of grid power that I use to charge the battery of the big powerstation.

Also...

My "beige bomb" powerstation is nearly half the capacity of the big guy. Most nights I can unplug the fridge from the big powerstation and into the bomb and run it directly from the bomb for 6 to 8 hours by itself. This gets me more out of the captured solar power and helps cut the electricity bill even more. I seldom run this 8 hours because bedtime eventually comes.

But during the last couple of hours I can also dump extra charge from bomb to big guy while the bomb powers the fridge as well.

 

[Jacob Petersheim]

Thursday was a low yield day. Solid overcast all day aside from brief openings of maybe half-clear gaps in cloud, though with no precipitation. Not a typical Summer day here. I doubt we got anywhere near 75F.

Not a single bucket filled above 71% and the beige bomb finished with 35% starting the day at 20%. These are actually useful amounts, but they don't do much to displace paying for grid power. Just running some lighting and recharging a leaf blower battery.

 

[Jacob Petersheim]

Guy burns his house down, killing pets, because he was too clueless to be buying the stuff he did. In his case it was battery packs for a medium-sized drone.

This video points out that the packs even have instructions right on them that should have warned the guy that he was doing things wrong.

Most consumer products have integrated protection to ensure safe charging and discharging. But there are products intended for knowledgeable users that require a degree of literacy, awareness, and caution. Especially with the low-end Lithium-Polymer (and similar Cobalt-based chemistry) cells dumped into the US market by China. These are cheaper and lighter with higher energy-density than safer chemistries, and are sadly still used in many EVs and HEVs sold here. But at least there are battery-management system (BMS) circuits in such consumer products.

Only the smallest powerbanks and mini-powerstations that I have use Cobalt-based cells, but they all have a BMS.

 

[Yvonne Smith]

When I lived in Idaho and didn’t have power or water, I had a generator and a battery system that worked for power. Starting the generator was not easy for me, and I would run it for a couple hours and do any cooking or anything I needed power for, and it would charge up my refrigerator , and then I didn’t open the fridge for the rest of the day, so it would stay cold.
I had a 55 gallon drum connected with an RV water pump, and that pumped water into my house. In the back of my pickup, I had 2 more drums, and every day, I filled them with water and hauled it home. This was how I watered the animals, the tiny garden, and had water in the trailer house.
This only worked in the summer, because the water froze in the tank in the winter. So, in the winter, I used 2 5 gallon buckets and filled them with snow over and over, until I had filled a large garbage can and the bathtub in the trailer, and this was how i flushed the toilet in the winter, and had washing water.

Mostly, I stopped at the laundromat on my way home from work and did my laundry and cleaned up in the laundry bathroom, where I could also wash my hair. I brought home jugs of drinking water from work, so I always had water for drinking, too.

 

[Jacob Petersheim]

Living "off the grid" is no joke. But yes, there are people who just take it in stride as a part of daily life. People are stronger than most of us realize anymore.