India is the latest to come to terms

[Don Alaska]

India has now lifted tariffs on U.S. goods being imported on 22 billion dollars worth of imports annually and is currently negotiating further "trade deals". I don't know what Canada will do eventually. They claim to be moving away from a relationship with the U.S., but I can guarantee that no other nation will allow them to take advantage of trade as they did with the U.S. We'll see what happens.

 

[Jacob Petersheim]

I'm still puzzled by the statements made by so many average people. They go around wringing their hands and saying that they don't think Americans are welcome elsewhere, so they won't travel. I get the impression that the opposite is true and people in other countries are cheering us on for the most part. Both domestic and international polling seems to support our current path.

I suppose the media really has its hooks into people yet.

 

[Yvonne Smith]

We are now imposing reciprocal tariffs on the other countries that impose tariffs on the United States. There has been some complaining, but I think that is because people do not understand that we have only imposed half as much tariff as the other country is imposing on the US. This leaves us goor room for negotiating with other countries, plus, since they are asking even more tariff than we are, they can’t really complain if we are doing the same ting back now.
I think we will be having a lot better trade relations before long, and maybe people everywhere will pay less tariffs.

 

[Axel Slingerland]

Do you know what tariffs actually are? They are nothing more than more taxes that you will have to pay to get what you need to survive. If you support that, you must be rich. Because who makes money on higher prices? The rich.

Think about the Great Depression. While there is no specific cause, there were several factors that may have, and several that definitely made it worse. One of those was the Smoot-Hawley Tariff. The results of which are being repeated right now.

The US imposes tariffs on Canada, Canada retaliates and imposes tariffs on the US. Who pays for that? Is it the governments of the US and Canada? Perhaps, perhaps not. Regardless, the facts are widely know about who pays when the governments pays. So either way, who pays for tariffs? The people. The same ones who always pay.

Not to single you out, but your signature is significant to this, Yvonne... In my way of looking at it, it effectively says "It pays to be a skeptic when you are the one who pays the bill." You put it there. So why aren't you skeptical of all this?

Are Tariffs Bad For Growth?

​

 

[Yvonne Smith]

Most of what I buy is from the United States, anyway, and we do not have tariffs on anything made here in America. I am definitely NOT rich, and do not buy imported items.
We are already paying the tariffs for everything we buy from some other country, and the tariffs we imposed are not only reciprocal, they are nowhere near as much as we pay other countries for their products right now.
I do not see how negotiating for less tariffs is going to hurt America at all.

 

[Axel Slingerland]

Ok, whatever...

 

[Don Alaska]

Many economists think the tariffs, if they are short-term, will be paid by the foreign manufacturers, as they want to keep prices down to make it more difficult for the U.S. to establish there own manufacturing of whatever the issue is. The U.S. has been badly abused for years due to the system set up after WWII, when we were the only functioning economy in the world. As part of the Marshal Plan and the Bretton-Woods agreement, the U.S. allowed most of the world to lean on us in order to re-establish economies that had been destroyed during the war. Unfortunately, that system has been allowed to remain in place as the world economy flourished. Germany, for example, not only heavily tariffs U.S. autos, but uses the tariffs received to subsidize the cars that are exported to the U.S., so we get hit with a double whammy there. Almost no U.S. cars are sold to Japan due to astronomical tariffs, but as you know, there are a few Japanese cars sold in the U.S. Smoot-Hawley has long been blamed for the Great Depression, but the real cause was a stock market bought on margin with a very high price-earnings ration (similar to what exists today although probably with less margin by the retail investor, and manipulation of the currency by the recently-established Federal Reserve System, which was established with the promise that it would prevent all future recessions and depressions by "stabilizing" the economy. What the Fed really did was attempt to make many of the big investors even more wealthy than they were by permitting currency manipulation and stock market manipulation by the wealthy class. The Depression wasn't really caused by the tariffs at all, but the tariffs were blamed to prevent the retail investors (especially) from seeing the REAL reason they lost their money. Agricultural issues around the world, but especially in the U.S. also contributed to the Depression.

I am concerned that the Trump Administration, in its desire to make the U.S. treated more fairly on international markets may misjudge the reaction of foreign governments to the U.S. action. It is true that the U.S. was largely supported by tariffs until the income tax was passed, but going into that will make this post even longer.

 

[Axel Slingerland]

Anyone who blames the Great Depression solely on the Smoot-Hawley Tariffs needs to do some studying in economic history. It made it worse, and as I said before, there is no one specific thing that caused it, the Stock Market Crash was one of the bigger things that contributed to it.

The reason I mentioned Smoot-Hawley was because we're talking about tariffs. The problem with so many discussions like this is that some people think stating well documented facts are attacks on them. I don't play that game. I look up what I talk about, simply because I don't want to say anything that is not verifiable. I admit that I use the Internet as a soapbox just as much as anyone else. But the fact is, I like to know what I am talking about is accurate.

If that offends anyone, all I can says is "Before you use the Internet as a Soapbox, first use it as a Learning Tool."

 

[Yvonne Smith]

As far as i can see, no one is thinking that they are being attacked personally, or accusing you of doing that, @Axel Slingerland . We are having just exactly what we are intending to have ……. A discussion about the thread topic. If you think you are being personally attacked, you aren’t.
We are just people sharing our opinions, and what we have read or learned somewhere.

 

[Sheryl]

I thought the idea of tariffs is to make foreign products more expensive to buy so that we will buy American made. If I can pay a little more for something and give Americans jobs, I'll do it. I already buy American made when it is available.

If Americans have jobs, they pay taxes. Taxes increase the amount in the federal budget.

 

[Don Alaska]

Nobody is attacking anyone. I don't always agree with everyone else. Our (U.S.) current situation really got going under Nixon when he pushed the idea of tax breaks for companies sending manufacturing offshore. It was the beginning. The big move offshore came after Bill Clinton pushed to get China into the WTO (World Trade Organization) as a "developing country". That was the real beginning of American dependence on other countries, notably China. Much of Clinton's campaign money came from China through legal Chinese ex-pats in Arkansas. He was paying back campaign debts. The entire system then fell in line as the political elite and others profited from legal and illegal money coming from the profits China was reaping from American and European trade. The Chinese Consul in San Francisco famously said, "We would never allow America to do these things to our country, but since you allow them to occur, we assume you like them and will continue until we are stopped." That may not be a direct quote, but it is the essence of what was said.

 

[Yvonne Smith]

Here is a list that i found online that shows how much other countries are putting a tariff on the United States. We have been paying their tariffs (to our own detriment) since the 1940’s, so not that far from a 100 years of America paying for everything. It is time we stopped that, and found a more balanced trade agreement with other countries.
If tariffs drop everywhere, (which could now happen), people all over will be paying less for things they buy.

 

[Susannah]

A very important intent of the tariffs is encouraging companies to manufacture their product in the US instead of making it abroad and shipping it here. We’ve recently seen some big promises from companies but they will take time to materialize.

There is a chip maker, Hyundai cars, Nippon Steel and more. These deals mean good jobs.

International Companies Bet Big On America: A New Wave Of US Jobs

CEOs see a U.S. economy ripe for growth.

www.forbes.com

The link I included has information about the companies that indicated they are going to build here. That’s why I linked it and not for all the opinions they threw in.

As to interaction on the forum if we all agree on everything it’s going to get boring quickly. Americans are divided and the media has a big role in that.

 

[Axel Slingerland]

A very important intent of the tariffs is encouraging companies to manufacture their product in the US instead of making it abroad and shipping it here. We’ve recently seen some big promises from companies but they will take time to materialize.

Intent... Promises... They don't put food on the table. Not to mention, the reasons the vast majority of goods in the US right now are imported because of rich people sending jobs overseas. In order for Americans to get back to work making US products, there has to be jobs available.

The link I included has information about the companies that indicated they are going to build here. That’s why I linked it and not for all the opinions they threw in.

That goes back to what I said about intent and promises. If they actually build here, that is more than promises. That's jobs. (I wouldn't care about all the opinions they threw in either.)

Americans are divided and the media has a big role in that.

So does Media Manipulation, Fake News, Anti-Social Media... The list of influences and what shapes opinions is almost endless. The biggest problem is many people just believe whatever their political party tells them to believe, without ever questioning the validity of it. And that is why Germany drew in such massive crowds of followers in the lead-up to WWII. And just like those people, everyone needs to see for themselves what is real and what isn't. They simply will not listen to anyone but who they believe.

 

[Don Alaska]

Here is a list that i found online that shows how much other countries are putting a tariff on the United States. We have been paying their tariffs (to our own detriment) since the 1940’s, so not that far from a 100 years of America paying for everything. It is time we stopped that, and found a more balanced trade agreement with other countries.
If tariffs drop everywhere, (which could now happen), people all over will be paying less for things they buy.

View attachment 356

The highest tariffs are not listed. This apparently only shows the universal tariffs, i.e., the tariffs charged on all imports. The targeted tariffs are MUCH higher.

 

[Don Alaska]

Vietnam has now come to the administration with an offer to eliminate tariffs. Of course, they export far more to the U.S. than they import, but then...so does China. The Chinese economy has taken a hit even before the tariffs were in place, and Canada's job numbers are plummeting while the U.S. job numbers were almost double expectations and all in the private sector, not government and government-subsidized like education and healthcare. Interesting times and perhaps a time to really get wealthy if you time it right. Israel has also eliminated tariffs on the U.S. and several other nations are currently negotiating. OPEC has increased oil production and that has lowered wholesale oil prices Natural gas prices are dropping on the wholesale market as well. Things are really looking up but the media is still trying to paint a bleak picture. Hyundai and Stellantis have promised not to increase prices while negotiations are underway as well. Car prices are frozen in the U.S. for at least those two companies, which should pressure others to do the same.

 

[Yvonne Smith]

Several large companies manufacture products in Viet Nam, so I am sure they put pressure on the country to work out something with the tariffs, so they can still make the product with cheap labor, and not have a high tariff on it when they want to sell it in the USA.
Here are some of the large companies who have manufacturing plants in Vietnam Nam:

• SAMSUNG
• NIKE
• INTEL
• FJÄLLRÄVEN
• ADIDAS
• LG
• THE NORTH FACE

 

[Jacob Petersheim]

I hear that Argentina wants to offer a deal as well.

 

[Jacob Petersheim]

It seems that Vietnam and other targeted countries have been used as transshipment intermediaries by China to bypass export restrictions and make the trade imbalance look better to the unaided eye.

 

[Axel Slingerland]

I copied your list, Yvonne, to assist in demonstrating a point. I hope you don't mind. It was easier than thinking of companies off the cuff.

Samsung: South Korean company, products manufactured in South Korea, Vietnam, India, and China
Nike: American company, products manufactured in China, Vietnam, and Indonesia
Intel: American company, products manufactured in USA, Ireland, Israel, and China
Fjällräven: Swedish company, products manufactured in China, South Korea
Adidas: German company, products manufactured in Vietnam, Indonesia, and China
LG: South Korean company, products manufactured in South Korea, China, Vietnam, Poland, India, Mexico, Russia, Indonesia and the United States
North Face: American company, products manufactured in China, Vietnam, Bangladesh, Cambodia, and El Salvador

Notice a pattern there? Out of all those companies, only three are American, and there are only two that manufacture anything in the US, Intel makes computers in San Jose, California and LG makes Washers and Dryers in Clarksville, Tennessee. The American companies all have something else in common, which is that they all farmed out Americans jobs to China. And of course all those companies have products manufactured in China.

As far as their products go, I have several Samsung TV's, as we had one in every room in the house in Eureka, 6 total. All junk in my opinion. But they were dirt cheap so Cindy bought them. I have no Nike, Fjällräven or North Face products. The only shoes I buy are New Balance, I never heard of Fjällräven and all of my camping gears was either North Face, Kelty or Jan Sport.

The one company I will buy electronics from without question is LG. I bought at Monitor at Costco in 2012 and it worked great until this past December, when the power supply (not the monitor itself) gave out.

That's 12 years for a product that most computer geeks replace after just a couple of years. So I bought two new ones that are larger versions of the old one, for about the same price as I paid for the original one in 2012 ($119 each, plus tax), one for myself, and the other for my son.

But I think you're all correct that some countries haven't being 100% forthcoming in past trade deals, specially China and the US, but then again, that's the way the game is played. Everybody cheats...