US hails 'tremendous progress' on Ukraine peace plan - but says negotiators 'need more time'

[Smithy]

Marco Rubio, the US secretary of state, says the meetings in Switzerland on Sunday have been "the most productive and meaningful" of the peace process so far.

Marco Rubio said the meetings in Switzerland on Sunday have been "the most productive and meaningful" of the peace process so far.
He said the US was making "some changes" to the peace plan, seemingly based on Ukrainian suggestions, "in the hopes of further narrowing the differences and getting closer to something that both Ukraine and obviously the United States are very comfortable with".

Mr Rubio struck an optimistic tone talking to the media after discussions but was light on the details, saying there was still work to be done.

Source: https://news.sky.com/story/us-hails...-but-says-negotiators-need-more-time-13474651

 

[Don Alaska]

From what has been leaked, it sounds like the "Peace Plan" is essentially a Ukrainian surrender. I think they may come to some agreement between what has been leaked and what is reality, but Ukraine doesn't really have any cards to play if the West doesn't support it. I DO think keeping Ukraine from joining NATO would be a good start, since NATO expansion is likely what started the whole thing and NATO has gotten too big already. It was once a defensive alliance among nations that could supply military assistance to the alliance against Russia, but it became a much larger group of nations with nothing to contribute and did nothing but obligate the larger nations to protect them and the alliance as a whole became more offensive when it entered the former Yugoslavia when no NATO nation had been attacked. NATO became a string of trigger points to start WWIII, just as happened prior to WWI. The world went to war over Serbia.

 

[Axel Slingerland]

I don't think Ukraine will surrender. Whether they get support from allies or not, they will fight to the last man. If Russia wants Ukraine, they are going to have to forcefully take it. I laugh at that idea and say "Yeah, right, Good Luck with that. Remember Afghanistan?"

 

[Joe Riley]

Updated peace plan could be a deal Ukraine will take - eventually​

"Donald Trump wants a peace deal in Ukraine very badly. Kyiv wants peace even more, just not at any cost."
"That's why when the US began pushing it to agree to a deal by Thanksgiving on what looked close to surrender terms, Ukraine pushed back. It scrambled senior officials to talks in Geneva and all of Sunday we saw delegates from the US and Ukraine shuttling back and forth between the two main venues in black limousines with darkened windows. They were joined by national security advisers from Germany, France and the UK."

"The only time I glimpsed Andriy Yermak, heading the negotiating team from Kyiv, he looked stony-faced. No wonder: the starting proposal on the table was so skewed towards Russia's demands, the talks began with the US Secretary of State Marco Rubio having to deny it had been written by the Kremlin. But Donald Trump had been clear that Ukraine needed to sign up fast or face unspecified consequences. So Kyiv had to engage."

"On Sunday night, Marco Rubio declared there'd been "tremendous progress" in the talks with just a "couple of things" still outstanding. When pressed, he wouldn't be more specific, calling the situation "delicate". But a joint Ukraine-US statement says there's now a whole new deal in play, which it calls an "updated and revised framework document".
We haven't seen that yet. The Financial Times newspaper quotes one of the delegates, though - Ukraine's deputy foreign minister Sergiy Kyslytsya - who talks of a new 19-point plan with "very little left" from the original draft."

 

[Don Alaska]

I saw an announcement that there is an agreement with tentative approval from Ukraine. One analyst said this is the same strategy that Trumpet al. used to achieve the Abraham Accords. He throws out a proposal that he knows will not be approved but has enough in it to get people to the table to talk. That apparently is what happened, and Zelenskyy has signed off on some of it; the angry Europeans led by Starmer and Macron have now done the same. Russia may not approve of it as Putin thinks the West is weakening on Ukraine, but Russia is mulling over the deal too. Trump had a mysterious 1-hour non-scheduled phone call with Xi yesterday as well. Apparently they are usually scheduled and are much longer due top the translation issues both directions, but this one was impromptu and initiated by Trump. I haven't seen anything leaked or released about the call other than it took place.

 

[Marie Mallory]

From what has been leaked, it sounds like the "Peace Plan" is essentially a Ukrainian surrender. I think they may come to some agreement between what has been leaked and what is reality, but Ukraine doesn't really have any cards to play if the West doesn't support it. I DO think keeping Ukraine from joining NATO would be a good start, since NATO expansion is likely what started the whole thing and NATO has gotten too big already. It was once a defensive alliance among nations that could supply military assistance to the alliance against Russia, but it became a much larger group of nations with nothing to contribute and did nothing but obligate the larger nations to protect them and the alliance as a whole became more offensive when it entered the former Yugoslavia when no NATO nation had been attacked. NATO became a string of trigger points to start WWIII, just as happened prior to WWI. The world went to war over Serbia.

I agree. Nothing left to say.

 

[Marie Mallory]

Updated peace plan could be a deal Ukraine will take - eventually​

"Donald Trump wants a peace deal in Ukraine very badly. Kyiv wants peace even more, just not at any cost."
"That's why when the US began pushing it to agree to a deal by Thanksgiving on what looked close to surrender terms, Ukraine pushed back. It scrambled senior officials to talks in Geneva and all of Sunday we saw delegates from the US and Ukraine shuttling back and forth between the two main venues in black limousines with darkened windows. They were joined by national security advisers from Germany, France and the UK."

"The only time I glimpsed Andriy Yermak, heading the negotiating team from Kyiv, he looked stony-faced. No wonder: the starting proposal on the table was so skewed towards Russia's demands, the talks began with the US Secretary of State Marco Rubio having to deny it had been written by the Kremlin. But Donald Trump had been clear that Ukraine needed to sign up fast or face unspecified consequences. So Kyiv had to engage."

"On Sunday night, Marco Rubio declared there'd been "tremendous progress" in the talks with just a "couple of things" still outstanding. When pressed, he wouldn't be more specific, calling the situation "delicate". But a joint Ukraine-US statement says there's now a whole new deal in play, which it calls an "updated and revised framework document".
We haven't seen that yet. The Financial Times newspaper quotes one of the delegates, though - Ukraine's deputy foreign minister Sergiy Kyslytsya - who talks of a new 19-point plan with "very little left" from the original draft."

Thanks Joe, for more about the situation. Reading your and Don and others comments tells me more about what is going on.