Nutrition: Fats and Oils

[Jacob Petersheim]

I thought that it was now generally accepted that many plant sources of fats, in particular many industrially processed seeds, are not very healthy to consume. Exceptions including such things as olive oil.

But today a forum conversation (elsewhere) I'm caught up in has people still claiming that butter and animal fat sources are bad, push the old cholesterol arguments, and insist that seed oils are the healthy option. I presume this means "Canola," margarine, "Crisco," and the like.

Somehow this is now a political issue, I assume pitting nutritionists against corporate producers. Is this about trade and profits? I know certain countries have little else to sell in quantity besides seed oils, to the point where a sizable fraction of their foreign aid to the 3rd world is sent in the form of these oils.

But the rhetoric now seems to be more focused and strident. And somehow butter consumption has been tagged "white privilege" - somehow involving lactose tolerance.

Is western society losing its mind?

 

[Susannah]

I thought that it was now generally accepted that many plant sources of fats, in particular many industrially processed seeds, are not very healthy to consume. Exceptions including such things as olive oil.

But today a forum conversation (elsewhere) I'm caught up in has people still claiming that butter and animal fat sources are bad, push the old cholesterol arguments, and insist that seed oils are the healthy option. I presume this means "Canola," margarine, "Crisco," and the like.

Somehow this is now a political issue, I assume pitting nutritionists against corporate producers. Is this about trade and profits? I know certain countries have little else to sell in quantity besides seed oils, to the point where a sizable fraction of their foreign aid to the 3rd world is sent in the form of these oils.

But the rhetoric now seems to be more focused and strident. And somehow butter consumption has been tagged "white privilege" - somehow involving lactose tolerance.

Is western society losing its mind?

What goes around, comes around, literally. If you live long enough you see a re-run of all the popular opinions, fads, etc. I think you’ve got something there in thinking a lot of it is about profits.

On the other hand statistics are showing a lot more young people are getting cancer and heart problems earlier in life. So, I dunno. Maybe it’s good to be old and tough.

Right now I have the news on and the topic is micro plastics (from water bottles in the brain and the heart). They say tap water is healthier, stop microwaving meals and I already forgot the third one. Hmmmm…maybe they are right!

 

[Jacob Petersheim]

Yeah, it can wear you out trying to determine what is true and then what true concerns are significant.

I'm more confused by the pattern where things like nutrition choices get linked to political positions, many of which are phony anyway and seem more like fads.

 

[Sheryl]

We were told that lard and butter were going to kill us, use Crisco and margarine instead. And don't eat eggs! I went for years only eating eggs occasionally. Then they say, "Well, maybe we were wrong. Eggs are nutritious and healthy." Crisco is going to kill you. Eat vegetable oils instead. Don't eat margarine, eat butter in limited amounts.

I think we should eat natural foods as much as possible. But I do fry with canola oil. I hope it doesn't kill me.

 

[Don Alaska]

Some are claiming that all seed oils are bad due to the way they are processed and the fact that they can go rancid. I suspect that in a decade or so that will also change. Many of the opinions that are expressed are not based on data but on opinions only. That is how the whole switch from saturated fats to vegetable fats was made. Atherosclerotic plaque contains cholesterol, therefore cholesterol intake must be bad. They didn't bother to look at data to see if it was really true. When they finally did, they found that dietary cholesterol had little effect on the total cholesterol, and many of the old "bad fats" became acceptable. View all medical opinions with skepticism unless you can find a valid non-biased dataset that validates them. Most studies in the U.S. and many in Europe are financed by Big Pharma, who are always looking or ways to increase their profits, so view whose studies in particular as very biased to drug usage. Maybe the seed oil data is provided by the coconut (also a nut) oil or the olive oil producers.

 

[Susannah]

I vaguely recall the big fuss that people made about McDonald’s fries when they switched from beef tallow to vegetable oil. I looked it up and it was 1990. I would have guessed older than that. So now we’re going back.

I was curious about buying tallow now. Safeway doesn’t have it. Walmart does and a 14 oz jar is $13.97. Sounds expensive. It’s best for cooking at high temps, like deep frying. Makes sense for the fries. Do we even have producers that could render enough beef tallow for the market?

So what about bacon fat. That was the go to grease in my youth. My grandmother and mother saved every drop of it. Looking back I think we ate a lot more bacon then.

I forgot shortening, the solid white stuff, Crisco was popular. At some point we were told that all solid fats were bad for us and soon we were all using oils.

Now eggs are recommended for seniors as a good and cheap source of protein. Well, they were cheap until bird flu.

 

[Don Alaska]

Crisco and the like were hydrogenated vegetable oil, which are largely trans fats, found to be the worst "shortening" of all and it has now been banned from the food supply in many places, but was the rage in the 50s and 60s as a "healthy" alternative to animal fats. During the 1970s, high fructose corn syrup was introduced into the American diet as an alternative to cane and beet sugar, which was in short supply at the time. It was also the beginning of the increased overweight and obesity problem we in the U.S. currently experience. I don't know if it is a cause or a contributor, but it seems suspicious to me.

Bacon fat could be considered a type of smoked lard I guess. We had pigs for a while, and rendered our own lard, separating the different kinds of lard. Tallow is the general term for beef fat just as lard is the generic term for pork fat, but there are are several different fats on each animal with slightly different properties. Suet was the most prized beef fat at one time, but now most of it is fed to wild birds in the U.S. The British and many Europeans still use suet for specific purposes in cooking, as it melts at a higher temperature that generic beef tallow. Sheep and lamb fat is considered worthless, but goose and duck fat is the most expensive I think.

 

[Yvonne Smith]

For many years, we have called seed oils “vegetable oil”, which just makes it sound like it should be healthy since we all have heard that vegetables are a healthy food.
Actually, most of these seeds we make oil out of are okay for people to eat as a whole seed, or even a ground up one; and it is the processing of these seeds that make them so unhealthy for us to use as a cooking oil.

Some oils can be cold-processed, which means that the oils can just be squeezed out of the plant. This works for olive oil, avocado oil, and coconut oil; but most of these seeds oils that are mass marketed as a cooking oil can not be cold-pressed.
They have to use high heat to get the oil out, which burns the oil, and then it has to be cleaned and bleached out with chemicals before it can be processed and bottled. Since oil can go rancid fast, chemical stabilizers are also added to the seed oils to preserve them for a long shelf life.

Probably the worst oil is Canola oil, which is made from rapeseed, a plant in the brassica family. It has a very bitter taste, similar to the mustard plant, as well as it contains eucic acid, which damages the heart. In addition to the other heat and chemical processing, rapeseed oil also has to have the bitter taste and the eucic acid processed out before it is considered safe enough to use.
Sadly, this has been promoted as a heart-healthy cooking oil, when it is the one that is the most dangerous for a person’s heart.

 

[Mary Stetler]

The less a food is processed, the healthier it is. If you look at a label and it has more than maybe 4 items in the list, or items you can't pronounce, don't buy it. The seed oils have to be processed with chemicals which can be carcinogens. Vegetable oils are NOT made from squeezing vegetables. I saw them SQUEEZING the oil out of peanuts in southeast Asia but not sure how it is done here.
The closer foods are to as God made them, the safer they are. IMHO

 

[Marie Mallory]

Today I was taking a teaspoon of olive oil and almost choked, couldn't breath for a minute or so, The oil was organic, and very spicey. Surprised me.
Now I'll take it with food.
I hear it is good for eyes and brain, and other benefits.

 

[Yvonne Smith]

Today I was taking a teaspoon of olive oil and almost choked, couldn't breath for a minute or so, The oil was organic, and very spicey. Surprised me.
Now I'll take it with food.
I hear it is good for eyes and brain, and other benefits.

What brand was it, @Marie Mallory ? Did it say it was extra virgin cold pressed olive oil ? I have been reading that some olive oils have other oils mixed in. The article said to refrigerate it and see if it gets cloudy or thickens. If it does not do that, it might not be pure olive oil.

 

[Don Alaska]

There is a big difference between Extra Virgin Olive Oil in Europe and the same in the U.S. The EU has strict standards on what can be labeled as Extra Virgin, while the U.S. has no such standards. As a consequence, the Europeans often dump their lower-quality olive oil onto the American market, and American consumers think they are getting better quality stuff since it comes from Spain or Italy, but the opposite may be true. Of course, there are reputable European firms who are honest, but I think as a rule, if you buy American oil you will be more certain of its quality as, even though they could also market low-quality oil as Extra Virgin, I suspect California law would prohibit that even though it would be legal at the Federal level. Also, you can also judge it somewhat from the price as the less-than-honest marketers tend to offer lower prices. It used to be said that if you weren't paying $20 a liter or more, you were not getting EVOO, but I suspect that number is much higher now as inflation has taken its toll. Perhaps aim for $30 a liter for good oil. Also, different trees in different regions taste different just as wine does.

 

[Marie Mallory]

What brand was it, @Marie Mallory ? Did it say it was extra virgin cold pressed olive oil ? I have been reading that some olive oils have other oils mixed in. The article said to refrigerate it and see if it gets cloudy or thickens. If it does not do that, it might not be pure olive oil.

Carapelli, it says its 100% olive oil.

 

[Marie Mallory]

There is a big difference between Extra Virgin Olive Oil in Europe and the same in the U.S. The EU has strict standards on what can be labeled as Extra Virgin, while the U.S. has no such standards. As a consequence, the Europeans often dump their lower-quality olive oil onto the American market, and American consumers think they are getting better quality stuff since it comes from Spain or Italy, but the opposite may be true. Of course, there are reputable European firms who are honest, but I think as a rule, if you buy American oil you will be more certain of its quality as, even though they could also market low-quality oil as Extra Virgin, I suspect California law would prohibit that even though it would be legal at the Federal level. Also, you can also judge it somewhat from the price as the less-than-honest marketers tend to offer lower prices. It used to be said that if you weren't paying $20 a liter or more, you were not getting EVOO, but I suspect that number is much higher now as inflation has taken its toll. Perhaps aim for $30 a liter for good oil. Also, different trees in different regions taste different just as wine does.

Don I just looked at the bottle and it say it is from Italy, I forgot what it cost but it wasn't cheap.
What most surprised me is the stuff is out of date since January! I can't believe I didn't check the date, i usually always do that.
So next trip to Publix I will see if they won't take it back since I just bought it a couple weeks ago.

 

[Mary Stetler]

Don I just looked at the bottle and it say it is from Italy, I forgot what it cost but it wasn't cheap.
What most surprised me is the stuff is out of date since January! I can't believe I didn't check the date, i usually always do that.
So next trip to Publix I will see if they won't take it back since I just bought it a couple weeks ago.

Real olive oil has a bit of astringency feel at the back of the tongue. It should not be that extreme of a feeling but it is there.